tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2845420051498655579.post4421048285138635713..comments2023-10-22T05:35:35.176-07:00Comments on Vaêdhya: Interpreting New Iranian Y-Chromosomal Data (Grugni et al.) [Review]DMXXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16689998564656086919noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2845420051498655579.post-2254849554365400872015-04-05T22:45:07.044-07:002015-04-05T22:45:07.044-07:00Thanks very much for the comment, blogmaster.
Ba...Thanks very much for the comment, blogmaster. <br /><br />Based on modern frequency distributions, that's the intuitive conclusion regarding Y-DNA R1a. Ancient DNA's the crucial piece of evidence we're lacking right now. The presence of Y-DNA R1a in a mesolithic Karelian hunter-gatherer alongside other forms of Y-DNA R1 in Haak et al. (2015), however, does open the field quite a bit. We desperately need some aDNA from West Asia to determine the developmental pattern of R1 in Eurasia.<br /><br />I have no current convictions regarding this topic as I follow the data until appropriate junctures have been met. Some pre-neolithic Y-DNA R1 from Iran or the South Caucasus would definitely mix things up nicely.DMXXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16689998564656086919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2845420051498655579.post-55705435974209091912015-03-16T17:57:22.676-07:002015-03-16T17:57:22.676-07:00I must say fabulous analysis of this data here. I...I must say fabulous analysis of this data here. I have been preaching nearly identical to every point here, since Wells' premature assumption of the origin of R1a1 (which by the looks of this high res study, seems to be Iran). J2 , R1 and likely I are Iranian in origin. blogmasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11834163614642737338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2845420051498655579.post-42140329302046320682013-09-12T01:12:19.386-07:002013-09-12T01:12:19.386-07:00"The strong presence of J1c3-PAGE08 is one of..."The strong presence of J1c3-PAGE08 is one of the surprising finds of this study. With an absence only amongst Assyrians from Azarbaijan province and a peak in Khuzestani Arabs (31.6%), I speculate this is an early Near-Eastern pastoralist nomad marker that is only accentuated in Khuzestani Arabs because the L147.1 marker (J1c3d), which is commonly associated with the expansion of Semitic languages (particularly Arabic in literature) was not tested here. Otherwise, it would be difficult to reconcile medieval Arabic admixture among Iran's Zoroastrians being comparable (and often greater) than Azeris, for instance, as Azerbaijan hosted Arab garrisons following the Sassanid collapse."<br /><br />Your comment raises a highly interesting question, especially the 8.8% in Zoroastrians from Yazd. Most J1c3d Armenians (and presumably many J1c3d Kurds as well) are YSC76+, a SNP downstream from L147.1 and L858! I agree with you: either the absence of L147.1 is the reason and we are dealing here with very old lineages or we have to rewrite the (until now exclusive Semitic) history of J-L147.1 and downstream SNPs. I'm especially interested into the question whether the J1c3 is due to admixture with originally Semitic speaking lineages or not...marcantoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04204100129324959360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2845420051498655579.post-20036406583431330352012-08-10T16:47:00.687-07:002012-08-10T16:47:00.687-07:00I think the low R1a1a in Fars could be due to many...I think the low R1a1a in Fars could be due to many reasons such as by chance from the tested group or it could be that people of Fars do have low R1a1a. I have also noticed that Lors also seem to have relatively lower R1a1a as well. The reason that North West/West Iran has more R1a1a could be due to multiple settlements of Iranian groups such as Scythians,Parthians,Medes and also even the early Persians themeselves were in around Urmia. <br /><br />It also seems to Lors are more similar to Fars then to any other region. Which is a surprising as many believed Lors would share more with Kurds of Iran due to them been known as Kurds in the past.StarDS9https://www.blogger.com/profile/07316012888337357178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2845420051498655579.post-17071796785842659762012-07-20T16:05:41.468-07:002012-07-20T16:05:41.468-07:00"Thank you Palisto, I imagine you must've..."Thank you Palisto, I imagine you must've also been pleased to see Kordestani Kurds get sampled! " Yes, I am. I was trying to get as much information out of Grugni et al., 2012 as possible.<br />http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/07/y-chromosome-analysis-of-iran.html<br />http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/07/y-chromosome-of-kurds-in-iran.html<br /><br />"Al Shamali et al., if I remember correctly, sampled southern Iran only. If there is STR similarity between those Iranians and the Afshars from Central Anatolia, it would only complicate the status of Haplogroup Q in Iran further. "<br /><br />Yes, the data are from South Iran. I agree that haplogroup Q is not easy to understand in the Middle East. We should also not forget the Jews in this equation: quiet a few Ashkenazi Levite and Cohanim lineages are Q1b1-M378.Palistohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633640722962576468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2845420051498655579.post-60613435276900381212012-07-20T13:37:13.815-07:002012-07-20T13:37:13.815-07:00Thank you Palisto, I imagine you must've also ...Thank you Palisto, I imagine you must've also been pleased to see Kordestani Kurds get sampled! I did not see any information about their tribal affiliations. That would have been the cherry on the cake (as well as additional Y-STR's).<br /><br />Al Shamali et al., if I remember correctly, sampled southern Iran only. If there is STR similarity between those Iranians and the Afshars from Central Anatolia, it would only complicate the status of Haplogroup Q in Iran further. <br /><br />Haber et al.'s investigation on Lebanese Maronites (Influences of history, geography, and religion on genetic structure: the Maronites in Lebanon) also presented 322 Iranian samples, of which 200 were "West Iranian" and 22 were Q-M242 (11% of West Iran). If time permits, I will investigate all this conflicting information in more detail tomorrow.DMXXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16689998564656086919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2845420051498655579.post-83924739693752664472012-07-20T12:31:16.032-07:002012-07-20T12:31:16.032-07:00Great summary of the paper and I agree with your c...Great summary of the paper and I agree with your criticisms. <br /><br />I have one comment about haplogroup Q. You wrote: <br /><br />"Haplogroup Q presents with a very distorted picture. 42.6% of Turkmens belonging to Q1a2-M25 is not in agreement with Wells et al."<br /> <br />I don't know about the subbranch Q1a2-M25 but the presence of haplogroup Q is in agreement with the findings for the Afsar clan of the Oguz tribe in Central Anatolia (Gokcumen et al). The STR data of the Afsar clan is similar to some Iranians (Alshamali et al., 2009; see individuals Iran104, Iran11, Iran67).Palistohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633640722962576468noreply@blogger.com